PLEASE BE SURE TO SCROLL All THE WAY DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS BLOG TO SEE OUR

LISTS OF PET RESCUE and ADOPTION GROUPS
and LOCAL PET RELATED BUSINESSES



Monday, February 1, 2016

Animal Services for Worse or Better Text from 1-12-2016 Laguna Hills City Council Meeting

LAGUNA HILLS ANIMAL SERVICES FOR WORSE OR BETTER? 
*** Please click on "OLDER POSTS" just below this blog to see 15 important questions and more information about this issue in a much shorter blog below this one.

Text from the 1-12-16 Laguna Hills City Council Meeting re: Orange County Animal Shelter Issues - Discussion of Planned New Orange County Animal Shelter and the Original 10 acres in Tustin Base Reuse Plan

Steve Franks, Director of Orange County Community Resources under which the Animal Shelter services fall said:

South County Community College District agreed to swap their 10 acre parcel for the County's 10 acre parcel in 2012 and the City of Tustin approved. The land swap was then delayed due to the "Vaper Intrusion Plume."  The County's original 10 acre parcel has been delayed due to a disagreement between Navy and State Dept. of Toxic Substance Control re. testing that needs to be done on that "plume" area. The County and South Orange County then signed a notice of intent in December 2015 for the County to enter into a ground lease to expedite the land from South County to the County 6.7 acres is going to be owned by South Orange County with no restrictions on development. It's outside the "plume" area and will be leased to the County, under a lease, the balance of the property will be transferred under a sub-lease so the County will essentially have control of the 10 acres. Terms and conditions of the Ground Lease have been agreed to by the respective boards in closed session in Dec. of 2015. Lease documents are being mutually drafted and we expect to execute them in March of this year (2016) The County completed the conceptual design work this past Fall and construction expected to be initiated in June or July of this year with completion in Sept. of 2017.

**The Laguna Hills City Staff Report appears to have mentioned only "swapping not leasing" the land for the shelter which Steve Franks said would continue to be owned by So. OC Comm. college District?  So, assuming that with any land lease agreements there may be costs to the County for those leases and that any lease or lease related costs would very likely be passed on to the contract cities.  Also, in the future, there could be larger expenses to buy or continue to lease land that the County apparently does not own but on which the County Shelter will be built?  This could result in additional expense that should be included in the city's costs for animal care services from the County and in the cost differential between the County and Mission Viejo services.

It is expected that a design bid contract will be awarded to one of approximately 20 interested parties on April 5 of this year. There is a plan to establish a design review advisory group once the design contract is in place to provide input from contract city partners and rescue groups and county advocates and they would address specific design elements for the new facility.

Additionally we are bringing on a shelter consultant in February of 2016 to address size of staffing needs for the new shelter and to review current procedures relative to best practices in sheltering. **No name of, or specific qualifications of, this consultant were mentioned.

We are currently working on terms and conditions for agreements and distribution of contract city maximum financial obligations and participation agreements with the new shelter with the city negotiating sub-committee which includes (Laguna Hills Assistant City Manager) Don White from Laguna Hills. Intention is to have a final agreement with the cities in January to share with city councils of contract cities and those cities that have expressed interest in contracting with us moving forward at a new shelter. The target date for a commitment is April, 2016 of this year to allow for final design work related to the size of the shelter needed for the number of cities that will be contracting
**Related to this information that the number of cities that are going to continue with the county have not yet been confirmed, the amount of money that the City of Laguna Hills will have to pay to the county for their new shelter has also not yet been confirmed.

If contract cities do not continue with the county it is expected that they will have to have alternate services in place by the time the new shelter opens in Sept. of 2017, because the plan is to close our current shelter in Orange.  Franks stressed that - We recognize that the decision to participate in our new shelter is a local decision and we respect desires of each city and intent of each city.  We encourage interested cities to research and explore their options ASAP should they wish to do so.

Moving on the Grand Jury Performance Audit Recommendations: One of the recommendations was to increase the authority of the Chief Veterinarian in OC Animal Care Operations and as such, this past Spring, we appointed Dr. Hawkins as Director of OC Animal Care and she also serves as the Chief Veterinarian of the Shelter.  He noted that Dr. Hawkins has a bachelor's degree in Zoology and a doctor of Veterinary Medicine from the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine.  She's been a practicing Veterinarian since 2001 in the public and private sector, She's a  faculty lecturer at CalPoly Pomona, she is a contributing writer to Pet Health Zone Web Link, she's currently on CA. Veterinary Medical Assoc. House of Delegates and on the So.CA.Vets Assoc. Board of Trustees, has served as President, Treasurer and Vice President of the Saddleback/Capistrano Valley So. CA. Veterinary Medical Assoc.  Active member in good standing with the AVMA, DVMA, SCVMA
** It's great to know that Dr. Hawkins is a qualified Veterinarian and has been interested enough to join multiple Veterinary based organizations, but what's missing from all of this background information about Dr. Hawkins is any kind of previous experience with turning such a problematic animal shelter around. The essential experience of having at least significantly participated in turning a bad shelter around is something many of us have requested from the County for a new Shelter Director since 2005 and so far this request has always been ignoredAn additional requirement we would like to see for this position is proof of excellent managerial skills in addition to genuine compassion for animals.

Mayor Kogerman - Who would be appointing the design review advisory group members?
Steve Franks -  We would be asking for City Representatives from partnering cities.


Mayor Barbara Kogerman - When is the Shelter consultant going to be brought on.
Steve Franks - In February of this year to help with staffing and shelter policies.
Again, No qualifications for this person were noted?

Council Member Dore Gilbert - When do you anticipate Graoundbreaking?
Steve Franks - In June of this year.

Mayor Pro-Tem - Don Sedgewick - Asked about getting a commitment from the City prior to the design work because cities may want to know what this place is going to look like before they commit.
Steve Franks - We have shared some conceptual design work with you. It's difficult when you don't know the exact size. In February or March we'll have some more definitive documents.  **Above Steve Franks stated - Intention is to have a final agreement with the cities in January (this month), but the target date for a commitment is stated above to be April 2016 of this year.

Council Member Carruth - Will cities be able to impact policy at a new shelter such as with specifically mandated spay and neuter programs?
Steve Franks - That would be an issue that we'd have to address separately and would have to go to the Board of Supervisors who have not expressed any interest yet in a mandatory neuter and spay program.

Dr. Jennifer Hawkins Director of OC Animal Shelter at LHCC Meeting
said she was speaking about 10 Grand Jury Recommendations but did not mention to which of the two 2015 Grand Jury Report on the County Shelter she was referring.
** See two 2015 Grand Jury Reports about the County Animal Shelter at
http://www.ocgrandjury.org/reports.asp  plus the Performance Audit by the Director County of Orange, CA. Philip Cheng, Performance Audit Director at:

After checking both 2015 Grand Jury Reports, about the County Animal Shelter, we found that Dr Hawkins was speaking about the 2nd 2015 Grand Jury Report entitled - If Animals Could Talk About the Orange County Animal Shelter that was published on 6-7-15 and did have 10 Recommendations.
** The 1st 2015 Grand Jury Report about the County Animal Shelter entitled The Orange County Animal Shelter: the Facility, The Function, the Future was published on 5-21-15 and had 4 recommendations.
** The 2015 County Audit of the Orange County Animal Shelter had 34 recommendations plus a few more very significant problems at the end of the report that were not numbered.

1. Grand Jury Finding - Serious Morale Issues at the Shelter, Dr. Hawkins said they were chronic problems and generally because of the type of work they do related to people who throw their animal away animals, don't want to take care of them, abuse them, etc. and then surrender them to the shelter staff that needs to give them so much medical and personal attention. Plus there is so much negative attention via social media, etc. including cyber bullying of the staff.  However the Grand Jury Report clearly stated that many of the serious morale issues were attributed to "Poor Management Practices and Lack Of Effective Leadership." Dr. Hawkins added that morale is slowly improving as staffing improves and as some deferred maintenance issues are addressed under the new management team.

2. Grand Jury Finding - Trap, Neuter and Release (TNR) Program results in delay in Spaying and neutering of adoptable animals. Dr Hawkins response was that she disagrees totally on this one because it's not the case. She added that there are days when they need more animals to perform surgeries on and they have increased their spay and neuter days to 5 per week. She added that they increase their spay and neuter days to 6 or 7 per week as needed for high volume times.

3. Grand Jury Finding - Feral Cats roam freely at animal shelter and possibly contribute to animal and human exposure to zoonotic disease.
Dr Hawkins responded that there are 3 feral cats that are spayed and neutered, microchipped and vaccinated that are allowed to roam around the shelter but are no risk to people or animals. Later on in this session Dr. Hawkins also stated that these cats assist with rodent control at the shelter.

4.  Grand Jury Finding - Animal  Control Officers do not have effective Equipment or appropriate Procedural Options to del with unique emergencies in the field to tranquilize and euthanize animals in the field.  Dr Hawkins said CA. State Law still does not permit Animal Control Officers (ACOs) to carry controlled substances so they are left with uncontrolled substances which are more challenging to work with, but the do transport animals back to the shelter is they require sedation or other treatments. The ACOs do receive 6 months of training and they are hoping that the State of CA. will soon accept the training and allow them to administer controlled substances in the field.

5.  Grand Jury Finding - The Current Shortage of Personnel including Animal Control Officers, make it difficult for them to respond to calls in a timely manner throughout such a large county, especially since there is only one shelter to service all of Orange County.  The County Audit of the County Animal Shelter noted that a report completed in June 2014 stated that the County staffing was 44% below industry standards.   Dr Hawkins said they have had a 20% vacancy rate for a couple of years now. ***The Financial Operational Advisory Board said they were okay with decreasing that to about 10%, but it takes an extended period of time to hire people and train them - 6 to 9 months, and it only takes a moment for someone to leave, so they are trying to catch up here and they hired 12 more Animal Control Officer trainees who are trying to complete their training and studying 9 recruitments in other areas.

6. Grand Jury Finding  - There is little evidence that the Feral Free Program (Trap, Neuter, and Release Pgrm.) has been successful in reducing the feral cat population which could be a contributing factor to zoonotic disease.   Dr Hawkins says they disagree with this finding that includes Typhus in their disease findings because rates of Typhus have only gone down since the implementation of this program, so she would like to take credit for that. She also noted that Typhus is spread by fleas so all their cats and have a topical flea product applied and they are vaccinated, microchipped, spayed and neutered. She added that all cats are evaluated for disposition as well as health and the ones that can be released after being spayed and neutered are returned to the places from which they came.

7.  Grand Jury Finding - Kennels hosed with dogs inside increase the risk of disease.  Dr Hawkins said the transfer doors that are supposed to be in the middle of the cages are mostly broken or missing due to lack of maintenance so they have hired 8 new staff members and lengthened hours to allow for time to clean the cages in a more satisfactory way without the dogs being in the cages during the cleaning. She added that they have also repaired many of the transfer doors especially in lthe areas of aggressive animals.

8.  Grand Jury Finding  - Water hoses seen running resulting in wasted water. 
Dr. Hawkins said they can't use hose nozzles because those aerosolize bacteria so they have reduced water flow/pressure in the hoses.

9.  Grand Jury Finding - Limited airflow and no air conditioning in the cat trailers. The conditions in these trailers increase the vulnerability to disease.
Dr. Hawkins said the cat isolation room was really a challenge but she said that room has 100% air exchange in there now and the windows now actually open to get fresh air. In answer to a question from Mayor Kogerman, Dr. Hawkins stated that this trailer was refurbished about 2 months ago but not replaced.  In response to another question from Mayor Kogerman Dr. Hawkins admitted that they have not yet seen a drop in the disease rate there, but she believes stress for cats is a significant contributor to that disease problem.

10.  Grand Jury Finding - There is a rodent infestation creating additional risk of humans and animals contracting zoonotic diseases.  Dr. Hawkins said their location subjects them to an increased rodent problem but they have a monthly contract with an exterminator and their 3 resident feral cats are assisting them as well.

An additional important Grand Jury Finding is - Multiple county animal shelters are the standard throughout California counties of similar geographic size and population.  In the event of a shutdown at the OC Animal Shelter because of quarantine, earthquake or other disaster, animal care services in the unincorporated areas of OC and the contract cities would cease.  - The Counties written response to this is that they are actively pursuing regional adoption centers that would be able to assist OC Animal Care it the shelter is damaged in a disaster.

QUESTIONS from the Laguna Hills City Council Members

Mayor Barbara Kogerman noted that according to the County's Performance Audit of the County Shelter, the shelter staff morale problems were not related to members of the public and that sort of thing but to problems with not being well trained, lack of communication with staff and staff shortages. 50% of the staff rated the problem as number 1 on a scale of 10 related to staff satisfaction.

Dr. Hawkins responded that one of the Performance Audit Recommendations was having a survey and they are doing that right now to determine the engagement of the staff members. She said most of them were very loyal to the program and they they have increased communication  through giving "All Hands Meetings" multiple times a year, staff indicates that things are improving because they are hiring more people now, etc.

Mayor Barbara Kogerman mentioned the challenges of finding resources noting that Don White, Assistant City Manager of Laguna Hills, is on the Financial Operational Advisory Board (FOAB) to the County Shelter.  She noted that the staff shortage was an FOAB issue as was the action on feral cats related to a limitation of staffing, etc. It seems that the FOAB is not approving what you are asking for, and may have asked for earlier, to make some changes. That's 18 cities who are contracting with the shelter.  Is there anything that's going to change the influence of the FOAB if they are consistently voting against providing more resources for you to bring your staff up to standards and so forth?

Dr. Hawkins responded The FOAB certainly has concerns about what their cities are paying for. She said she believes they care about the animals but also have to be responsive to their constituents. **We have learned that the FOAB is not directly accountable to the public at all. They don't keep minutes of their meetings and don't allow the public to attend their meetings.  6 members of the FOAB are appointed by the OC City Manager's Association and the 7th member is appointed by the County and they are accountable to the OC City Manager's Association.-  See below:

Definition of the Financial Operational Advisory Board from the City of La Palma's contract with the Orange County Shelter
IV. Financial/Operational Advisory Board  - The parties agree that there shall be a Financial/Operational Advisory Board to advise COUNTY's Director of OC Animal Care on financial and operational matters, to assess cost options, and to communicate with the Orange County City Managers Association.  The Financial/Operational Advisory Board shall be made  up of seven (7) members, six (6) members appointed by the Orange County City Managers Association and one (1) member appointed by COUNTY. COUNTY may change the membership configuration of the Financial/Operation Advisory Board upon twelve (12) months written notification to CITY.

Dr Hawkins Continued  - stating that they try to engender more participation from the FOAB creatively through trying to make sure the FOAB understands their needs. She said, recently they have reporting to the FOAB regularly about what their needs are and the changes they are making. She added that she thinks some of their (the FOAB member's) jaws may be dropping related to what we are putting in our budget. We have conveyed to them that these aren't things we're going to be asking their permission for but more to advise them that this is coming. These are going to be outside of the previously proposed budget. There are other things they want to bounce around with the FOAB but as far as our actual needs we do our best to convey to them that these are costs that need to be addressed. There are not always happy with everything we are implementing.

Mayor Kogerman inquired - So the chain of Command is essentially that it goes from you to the FOAB, they make a recommendation and then it goes to the County Supervisors and they say the ultimate yes or no?
Dr Hawkins - That would depend on what we're talking about such a bringing an behaviorist on board or something like that and we think it's going cost this much money we let the cities know what it's expected to cost. If it's a contract with cities that is above a threshold that requires us to go to the Board to ask permission from the board then we do that. Some things like maintenance that is required for animal care, such as the cat isolation trailer refurbishment, we don't have to go to the board for that.

Mayor Kogerman - A concern is that, so far, there has been no change in that structure that approves and recommends budget requests and I'd like to see that because it seems like you have to beg and don't always get the things that you need.  I don't see that as an ideal situation.
Dr Hawkins  - addressed the 2015 County Performance of the Orange County Animal Shelter by saying that she would address any particular questions about that report but the report is largely about metrics so she didn't want to bore the council with 34 recommendations.

** The Performance Audit of Orange County Animal Care done by Philip Cheng, the Orange County Performance Audit Director - Final Report on March 24, 2015 is a 108 page Document  with 34 recommendations regarding problems at the County Shelter so we hope that is not "boring" to the Shelter Director or to the cities that offer County Shelter Services as the only option for their residents.  This audit states that Dr. Hawkins was appointed Interim Director for the County Animal Shelter in November of 2014, yet this Performance Audit, whose final report was dated March 24, 2015 noted many serious problems and some particularly horrendous problems such as the one on page 94 of the report (that was not mentioned in the printed text of this report that was included in the Laguna Hills Staff Report for the 1-12-16 LHCC Meeting) stating that the County did not identify or weigh animals before euthanizing them and did not verify death post  euthanasia.  This goes way beyond even deviant problems with procedure, this is something so far beyond acceptable practices that it may or may not be technically criminal but is certainly criminal related in the eyes of all residents who care about how their pets are treated.

Mayor Pro-Tem Don Sedgwick asked Dr. Hawkins - How long have you been with the Orange County Animal Shelter?
Dr. Hawkins answered I've been here a cumulative of about 10 or 11 years. She said she had a stint here from 2001 to 2004 then returned back to general practice from 2004 to 2008 then has been here at the County Shelter ever since.  She added she was hired as Interim Director in November of 2014 and hired full time as the Director in April of 2015.

Mayor Pro-Tem Don Sedgewick asked, So putting aside the Grand Jury Report what do you think needs to be improved and what do you need to do to do it?
Dr. Hawkins - A great deal needs to be improved at this facility but a lot of people want to focus on euthanasia but "outsiders" don't understand that we euthanize animals only for medical conditions or temperament challenges that are public safety risks. She added that they weren't euthanizing animals for space or anything else or any other reasons. *** This statement about euthanizing pets only for medical or temperament is NOT CORRECT according to the shelters own publication of it's yearly statistics. 
*** Go to http://ocpetinfo.com/about/stats to see the stats directly from the County Animal Shelter for years 2010 - 2014.

In the year 2012, the County Animal Shelter finally acknowledged that they do euthanize pets for "TIME, SPACE" and "TOO YOUNG" and they published the numbers for these in their own statistics under Euthanasia by Reason.  In LAGUNA HILLS in 2012 they acknowledged 1 cat killed for Time and 22 kittens killed for Too Young.  In LAKE FOREST in 2012 they acknowledged 1 dog killed for Space and 3 cats killed for Time, plus 31 kittens killed for Too Young.  In larger cities, such as Garden Grove, the County Shelter acknowledged that there were 10 dogs killed for Time/Space, plus 1 cat and 2 dogs killed for Time and 2 dogs killed for Space plus 512 kittens killed for Too Young.  In 2013, without any explanation, the County Shelter eliminated the categories of Euthanasia for Time and Space from their published stats but continued to publish stats under Euthansia for "Too Young".

Mayor Pro-Tem Don Sedgewick then asked if education to the community was important.
Dr. Hawkins - responded education about what we do and how to take better care of the animals and prevent them from entering the system. Many people like to focus on how we can get as many out as possible and it's good to get them adopted, but the way to decrease euthanasias is to reduce the number of animals that enter the system in the first place. Also improving accessibility to spay and neuter because animals that aren't spayed or neutered are at higher rick of entering shelters. ** Dr Hawkins did not mention any specific examples of education that they actually are doing in the community and where or how often.

Mayor Pro-Tem Don Sedgewick asked -  What changes would you like to see and what type of budget increase is necessary, in your opinion, to bring the shelter up to the standard where you think it needs to be?
Dr. Hawkins - It's hard to postulate how much that would be. We need to know what our staffing needs are, through using a consultant, to get the job done. We'll need more staffing for a larger shelter and so forth.

Mayor Pro-Tem Don Sedgewick said - It seems that a 20% vacancy would require a significant budget increase to bring that up to full staff.
Dr. Hawkins said "Absolutely", if we're fully staff is that going to be enough be enough or do we need more than 140 positions. I think we need to fill the positions before we determine if we'll need more. She added that if she could win the lottery and have her full staff and have all of those budgetary items fulfilled they would have a successful program.

Mayor Barbara Kogerman asked - Are you ramping up the hiring now in anticipation of the new shelter?
Dr. Hawkins - We're ramping up now to t the very least fill in this vacancy rate, but yes that's part of my interaction with the consultant. What are our current needs and what do we need to be prepared for that move.

Mayor Pro-Tem Don Sedgewickedgewick said You're going in the right direction and I applaud you for it but asked if our current cost would be expected to be increased if you achieve the level of staffing or would that be done within the current budget restraints?
Dr. Hawkins - If we're able to get other communities to help with the income or we spend more money in one area it's more of a balance between where the money is spent rather than is more spent.  It is yet to be determined with maximizing those community outreach services and if they're able to succeed in realizing decreased impounds we may need less care for animals in our shelter if we make sure the community is getting the services they need.

Council Member Carruth asked - Why would you not advocate with the County Board of Supervisors for a county wide spay and neuter program because if you have fewer animals you'd be better able to provide for the animals that are there?
Dr. Hawkins - The answer is not that simple unfortunately because making spay and neuter mandatory doesn't insure that people will spay and neuter. If the can't afford it they won't do it or they may stop licensing their pets and there's also the cost of enforcement. She said there are many questions related to people having access to spay and neuter in underserved areas.  She added that she used to work with a small animal veterinary care practice in Laguna Hills and pet owners are great here but not all other areas are so lucky.

Mayor Barbara Kogerman asked about Recommendations 2, 3 and 4 from the 34 recommendations from: The Performance Audit of Orange County Animal Care done by Philip Cheng, the Orange County Performance Audit Director - Final report on March 24, 2015

Recommendation 2 is  - OC Animal Care management should periodically review kennel staffing levels and schedules to ensure that it meets industry standards.    
** This audit also stated that the County Shelter's staffing was 44% below minimum standards and that due to capacity and staffing constraints animals brought to be surrendered by their owners had to be turned away. It went on to state that the shelter did not track the number of days that owners had to be turned away but there were 97 out of 353 non holidays in 2013 when no animals were surrendered to the OC Animal Shelter.(**The City staff report left out this piece of information)

Dr. Hawkins responded - Recruitments are ongoing for Kennel attendants levels 1 and 2 as well as for Vet Services staff members and we have 8 "extra help" kennel attendants right now. We are looking to satisfy the kennel staffing challenges and as I work with that consultant to get long term staffing recommendations. She said that their incomes keep going down but our population doesn't so we're looking at this down the road so our shelter won't be over or under-booked or out of date  within months of moving into it. 

Mayor Kogerman - How far are you away from achieving industry staffing standards right now?
Dr. Hawkins  - Industry standards are basically 15 min. per cage for each staff member so would have to count numbers of animals we have now vs. staff members. She said they have a low count of animals right now, only 125 dogs today and she doesn't know how many cats but would say they are "approaching it" related to staff levels. Have an average of about 18 kennel attendants right now and spread over 7 days a week could probably could use about 22 or 23.

Mayor Kogerman - How long is the training period for one of them?
Dr. Hawkins - Training period isn't terribly long - they have to learn all the policies and procedures and the computer program so it's a couple of weeks, not 6 months like it is for an Animal Control Officer.

Mayor Kogerman - If there's  a shortage and you have volunteers to do some of that work I understand the Employee's Union might prohibit that. Is that still the case?
Dr. Hawkins said -  Yes, that's right. That's still the case and might not always be the case but it's something that needs to be evaluated.

Mayor Kogerman - Recommendation 8 - Animal Care management should establish a policy to allow the public to begin the process of adopting an animal prior to that animal being spayed or neutered.  How are you doing on that policy?
Dr.Hawkins - Sometimes when we have a higher volume of animals and we need to mover them out of our system and not make them wait an extended period of time for a spay or neuter, such as in the summer, animals are made available prior to being neutered or spayed. At times like now, when we have fewer animals there aren't many spays and neuters to do. So we weigh each day to see where we are and make a determination.

Mayor Kogerman - The recommended policy is to allow someone to begin the process of adoption prior to neuter or spay so they are reserving that animal and can be notified when it is ready to be picked up. Are you dog that yet.
Dr. Hawkins - Not yet because that would mean a person going home and coming back rather than adopting the animal and taking it home the same day. As soon as an animal becomes available it will show on their web site and we tell people that they should come the following day to adopt it. She said they used to have that process but it was a problem because people would put them on hold and then not take them, so that involved holding those animals for a longer period of time.

Mayor Kogerman - Recommendation 14 - OC animal Care management should develop approaches to enhance the cost effectiveness of the canvassing program by utilizing Chameleon (an animal shelter computer system).  She noted that the canvassing done now by the County Shelter has about an 80% not home rate. Have there been any improvements in the process of canvassing?  How much canvassing do you do per year for each of the cities?
Dr. Hawkins - Don't have the average numbers but the schedule is Monday though Saturday. No Sunday canvassing related to negative responses on family days.  Have seen an increased response to canvassing and are using Chameleon Data Base 2 to access the information they get in the field.

Mayor Kogerman - There is data base issue with employees trained on a data base that is a more suitable  to animal shelter operations vs ones that aren't quite as suitable related to canvassing and all sots of things tracking the animals.  Has that training improved?
Dr. Hawkins - We can't spare one person dedicated to do all the training but have employees experts on Chameleon and they do training for the staff.
Mayor Kogerman - When there is a shortage and you have certain tasks you have to perform volunteers can't always perform those tasks because of an MOU (Memorandum of Understanding)  Is that being considered for a change to provide more flexibility?
Dr. Hawkins -  Not at this time.
Mayor Kogerman - Recommendations 11 + 14 through 21 of this County Audit all addressing financing and problems with canvassing related to cities not paying their share, when licensing hasn't been collected and it's in arrears. I understand you recently forgave a large amount of money for various cities for arrears they'd otherwise have had to pay?
Dr. Hawkins said No one's been forgiven for moneys in arrears
Steve Franks, Director of Orange County Community Resources, interrupted to answer this question.  Franks said - The County Shelter moved from a modified accrual basis to cash basis with respect to their collections and said that when revenues were billed out and not collected and went through collections processes  some had to be eventually written off as bad debt and that's what has been written off, however we are moving to a cash basis as of Jan. 1 through an agreement with the cities so now we're recording revenue when it comes in as cash. We are aggressively pursuing some of the bad debt so some of it is written off and some is pursued through alternate means.

Mayor Kogerman - There's a low percentage on recovery of the bad debts, so could we expect to get a surprise saying there's some large amount of bad debt money that we'd have to pay or something like that?
Steve Franks - said No, we advised the cities of the amount of bad debt that was pending and we collect on average, 95% of the bills we send out, on a regular basis, but there's 5% that aren't coming in and that is bad debt and that eventually has to be covered by other revenue sources.

Mayor Kogerman - Your new accounting system would create less of a surprise for a city?
Steve Franks - Yes there would be less of a surprise but less revenue in hand at the time, because we won't be recording revenue that we have not yet received.  
** The Performance Audit of Orange County Animal Care has an answer, from the County Shelter, to it's Recommendation # 20 stating that in FY 2015-16 a total of $450K of uncollected revenue will be written off.

Mayor Kogerman - Next question is about Recommendation # 29 - OC Animal Care Management should establish regular training sessions on it's enterprise software systems for all relevant employees, including all management and administrative staff. The County Shelter's answer to this recommendation was that this is pending the filling of key staff positions.  So have those positions been filled?
Dr. Hawkins - Some of those positions have been filled and our training has increased exponentially. Previously staff that got training intermittently, now half of the staff gets training in the morning and half gets training in the afternoon once a week.  
Mayor Kogerman - Questions remain regarding all of these responses that it seems that the staffing shortages and not getting an adequate response from the OCAC and everything being brought up to industry standards and what's it going to cost. etc. Any ballpark cost ideas on what it's going to cost and what we're spending now at OCAC (Orange County Animal Care)?
Steve Franks answered -  What they are trying to do is bring a consultant on board to help with staffing here and with the new shelter so some issues are still pending. He said they do keep in mind that the contract cities pay in the 90 to 95 % range so he believes in the cities' decision making process to the extent that those share holders express concerns regarding their financing.  He tries to be duly respectful, but at the same time, there is a certain standard that needs to be met, to raise that bar, and that is costing the cities more money so we are advising them of certain things we do and other things we are asking them for, but not trying to throw the bill at them all at once.

Mayor Kogerman - Has there been any mind set change at all that you can detect regarding being more willing to pay what it takes to bring up the standard?
Steve Franks- I think the city partners have been very willing to listen to what we have to say.

Mayor Kogerman - Willing to listen, okay.  There are a couple of Advisory Committees - The one we've been talking about is the FOAB - Financial Operational Advisory Board.  Is the ACOC - Animal Care Outreach Committee still in effect?
Dr. Hawkins  - answered that the ACOC is still in effect.

Mayor Kogerman - There was another Advisory committee that was disbanded.  Is that still disbanded.
Dr. Hawkins said she believes that one morphed into the Community Outreach Group - the ACCOC.*** RED FLAG ON THIS PLAY -  The previous group DOES NOT STILL EXIST TODAY related to the fact that it was a VOLUNTEER group of OC residents who were interested in the quality of service for residents and pets from the OC Animal Shelter. That group was disbanded by a former Shelter Director who said it was "too contentious." Only 2 Groups exist now and both of those groups consist of all APPOINTED membersThe ACCOC (Animal Care Outreach Community) consists of 5 members who are APPOINTED by the 5 County Supervisorial Districts and the  FOAB (Financial Operational Advisory Board) consists of 7 members (6 members APPOINTED but the Orange county City Manager's Association and 1 member from the County.

Mayor Kogerman- There's a question about the accuracy of the euthanasia numbers from OCAC resulting from OCAC including animals that were admitted as already deceased being used as part of the number of live animals from which the number of euthanized animals is subtracted. If you take those numbers of previously deceased animals out of the equation the percentages of euthanized animals stated here as 28% euthanized would increase to 35% euthanized, so it would be more accurate to remove the already deceased animals from the original total number of animals admitted to the shelter when calculating the numbers of animals euthanized.  So, do you still count the numbers of animals that are already deceased upon admission in the original numbers from which the euthanized animals are subtracted?
Dr. Hawkins -  answered, Unfortunately that is an artifact of the system.  Hawkins agreed that only the number of live animals should be counted but said that years ago the numbers of deceased animals were included in that grid so the percentage of animals euthanized does increase when the numbers of animals that were dead on admission are subtracted. She added that in 2014 the numbers of animals euthanized were reported to be 9% for dogs but if the already dead on admit dogs and the owner requested euthansias for dogs the numbers of animals were removed from that count the rate of euthanasia for dogs would have increased to 10.8%.

*** We know this can be confusing, and it's also NOT HONEST related to accurate comparisons with euthanasia rates of other animal shelters that work so hard to actually save more live animals and keep accurate euthanasia rates that are consistantly low.  Euhansia rates of animal shelters are kept to provide accurate information related to how many live animals were saved and adopted out vs. how many live animals were euthanized at any given animal shelter.  Including animals that were already dead on admission in the count serves no purpose other than to artificially decrease the reported euthanasia rate of an animal shelter.  Please see our example below for a clarification of this problem:

EXAMPLE:
100 animals were admitted to a shelter in one week but 25 of those animals were already dead when they got to the shelter.  In that same week 10 animals were euthanized at the shelter.
So, if you combine the numbers of already dead animals plus live animals admitted you have:
100 animals admitted - 75 were live animals and 25 were already dead
10 animals euthanized

so, it would appear that 10% of the shelter animals were euthanized in one week

***but this is NOT correct and Not honest, because 25 of the original animals admitted were already dead when admitted to the shelter, so could not be saved and adopted out or euthanized, and therefore could not be honestly or accurately counted as "live animals that were not euthanized".

If a shelter wants to report accurate euthansia rates it would subtract the 25 animals that were already dead on admit from the 100 animals admitted then the correct number of live animals admitted would be:

75 live animals were admitted
10 live animals were euthanized
and the correct % of animals euthanized is actually 13.33%

Mayor Kogerman- I understand if you are bringing an older dog and just can't care for it anymore that the owners are required to sign a form that agrees that the dog can be euthanized if necessary.  So the pet of everyone who signs that form is counted as owner relinquished for euthanasia. Is that correct?
Dr. Hawkins -  That is not correct.  If someone comes in for the sole purpose of requesting the service of euthanasia they fill out a form saying that they want this animal euthanized and they pay for that service.  When anyone relinquishs an animal for the purpose of adoption they sign a form stating that they are aware that any number of things could happen if the animals condition declines or anything should change and that it's possible that the animal could be euthanized.

Mayor Kogerman - There are a lot of things in the OC Auditor's Report's (**The audit report has 108 pages of concerns with 34 recommendations) plus there are two OC Grand Jury Reports .  The County Auditors report dated March of 2015, after you were already there, has additional concerns.  Recommendation #3 is - OC Animal Care should develop policies and procedures to allow for scheduled owner surrenders to better manage shelter capacity. Are you working  on that?
Dr. Hawkins - we're working on that through a divergence program we've implemented. We've joined with OC Shelter 501C3 partners who will   collaborate with staff so that when a person comes to the shelter to relinquish an animal, if they are willing to speak with one of these partners, the partner could possibly address the issues a person is having with a pet in the home in a effort to help remove existing barriers to allow people to keep their animals. The partners can discuss Veterinary Services, Training even construction issues related to building better fences, etc.  We're hoping to move towards having a managed intake where we can schedule conversations with these people.

Mayor Kogerman - Also on euthanasia of diseased animals there's a comment about a lot of animals coming in healthy and then because of unhealthy conditions at the shelter, getting sick and there's a real spike in euthanizations there.  Do ppor conditions cause this, something like when a patient goes into the hospital and gets sick?  ** The County Audit states, that in 2014, 1,605 dogs and cats were normal when they come to the shelter and later euthanized because of medical conditions or contagious disease.
Dr. Hawkins -  said That's a challenge in shelter medicine overall. There's 2 parts to that, one is accurately tracking the status of animals on arrival. The data on that is hard to read. She added they are working on that. The other is that if construction is happening at the shelter and other things can cause stress that is especially a problem for cats. There are respiratory infections and many cats have viruses already onboard and stress brings activates those viruses. Cats don't do well in a shelter environment and they hope to improve the environment in a new shelter.

Mayor Kogerman - There's a lot in the report that requests needed help with tracking, statistics and requests for more information to be part of the process, etc. Are you dealing with that as well?
Dr. Hawkins - The metrics of the Chameleon system are challenging and the consultant says she can make recommendations and says she can help implement those recommendations as well.
Mayor Kogerman - On Field Services this County Audit says there were 9 of 56 positions vacant and 8 of 31 Animal Control Officers for a 26% vacancy.  How are you doing on field service vacancies?
Dr. Hawkins - We just hired 12 new Animal Control Officer Trainees.  We had 8 new hires at the end of 2014, 4 or 5 throughout 2015 and at the end of 2015 another 12 (**that's a total of 24 or 25 new hires for 56 vacant positions)

Mayor Kogerman- Regarding canvassing it says here there is an average of 15,000 hours a year throughout the system for canvassing(for 18 cities).  Do you tend to focus on a few cities at a time and it's based on a pro-rata thing, if we're 1.6 % of your budget does that mean we get 1.6% of 15,000 hours or 240 hours a year?  Do we pay for more if that seems inadequate or how does that work?
Dr. Hawkins - said she'd have to look directly at how much time is spent in each city and the revenues that are generated from licensing from canvassing or other means for your City and what gets credited back to your City.

Mayor Kogerman - In the past we have paid for additional canvassing that was evidently not provided with our contract.  There's a lot on donations.  Has that situation been changed, where someone donates to the shelter and if it's not used by the end of the year it goes into the General Fund. So  you can't build up a Trust Fund - Has that situation changed?
Dr. Hawkins - said It's improving, the Auditor Controller's Office is allowing us to have an.... Steve Franks took over and completed the answer to this question.
Steve Franks - At the end of December the fund was actually established now so there is a separate donations fund that exists and that we can track and that will carry over from year to year.

Mayor Kogerman - There was a lot of dissatisfaction with employee training but you feel that is vastly improve, is that correct? And, you've reinstated the All Hands Meeings?
Dr. Hawkins - Correct.

Mayor Kogermanthanked the Reps. from the County Shelter and said the council now has to make a decision that they will have to STICK WITH because we will be making a significant investment.

PUBLIC COMMENTS re. the Animal Shelter Issue

Fran Tardif, Laguna Hills - said she believes the County Shelter is trying it's best to make positive changes and she applauds their decreased euthanasia rate for the past few years, but they are still a high kill shelter and that wil not change when they move to a better facility.  According to reports from our city the County Shelter kills about 32% of our impounded animals. Almost half of those are cats and many of those are killed because they are too young and without their mothers. Contrary to what Dr. Hawkins has said imagine being too young to live.  They aren't sick or vicious, just too small and can't speak for themselves. We can speak for those animals in better ways through good foster care, adoption programs, effective spay and neuter programs,volunteer programs and donations for extended care. The County has initiated some of these things, but these are programs that can be beefed up in various ways. She said this takes work and the will to do it but she knows there are people in this community that are willing to do that work. Money is important, but not more important than the way we treat helpless, innocent creatures who depend upon us for their lives.  There's a new reality, as more and more citizens are becoming aware of new standards of care they are demanding more diligent and humane services for their cities.  Laguna Beach is an example and even Los Angeles is partnering with Best Friends Animal Society to become a no kill city by 2017.  If LA can do it why can't we attempt it?  This issue of improved animal treatment in our shelters is not likely to go away.  If not addressed now, I'm sure the city will be dealing with this down the road. Circumstances have made this the right time to make a change.  I'm asking that all the council members keep an open mind and apply all your leadership and creative activity to solve the turning point in favor of our animals. The discussions with Mission Viejo are ongoing and I'm interested in hearing about that and I hope that will work out. Also have you thought about the Irvine Animal Care Center and if you can explore that again?

Dr. Jim Gardner - said he is here just as himself and not as a Council Member from Lake Forest. You are asking the important question of what are you getting into so let me give you some ideas about that.  Orange County was recently sued by Sharon Logan. They reached an agreement with her. She didn't go after any money but subsequent to that they documented 2 cases of continued violation of the law. The only reason they haven't filed on that is they are waiting for 4 so they can have a major punitive lawsuit against the County for continuing to violate euthanasia procedures. So that's something you'll be getting into.  I'm so happy to hear Dr. Hawkins now saying that it's not right to include dead animals in their intake as admissions. Only 5 months ago she was arguing with me that is was okay.  She says now (about their euthanasia rate that) the difference is 9.6 vs 10 and not that's not the real difference.  The real difference is  9.6 vs 22.6, almost 3 times the difference. I've challenged Mr. Franks to dispute my information. This has been going on for 6 weeks and he hasn't had the courtesy of getting back to me with the challenging numbers although he keeps promising that.  The figures they're giving you for euthanasia are not true. The figures they're giving you for compliance aren't true. When they compute the licensing on compliance they use 2010 population data instead of 2014 population data.  This make thier licensing compliance looks like it's 52% in fact it's 43%, about a 20% difference. So they're not complying as they'd like you to believe but they are killing more than they'd like you to believe.  Their web site tells you that the data on rescues is that they've rescued 1,924 animals in 2014 but the Audit says it's 2,420. That's a 25% difference between what their web site is telling you and what their audit is telling you. I'm running out of time but I could spend as much time as they spent telling you all the good things they plan to do, telling you as many things that they are doing badly including killing 1000 puppies and kittens. It's a failed agency and the fact that they are still considering building only a single shelter.  It is unknown throughout the entire country that anybody would consider building one shelter like that instead of smaller shelters. This give you some idea of what a failed agency it is.
** The 2015 OC Grand Jury Report entitled "The Orange County Animal Shelter: The Facility, The Function, The Future"  states in it's Finding # F.4 - "Multiple county animal shelters are the standard throughout California counties of similar geographic size and population. In the event of shutdown at the OC Animal Shelter because of a quarantine, earthquake or other disaster, animal care services in the unincorporated areas of Orange county and the contract cities would cease."

Jean Bland, Laguna Hills  - I have questions tonight, but first I want to say to Don White (Assistant City Manager) that I found this report this year to be a balanced one. That's great, we've come a long way from 2005 and I appreciate that. Also Channing, (City Manager) I found your message to Mission Viejo to be very polite, we've come a long way too and I really appreciate that. The Performance Audit of Orange County Animal Care done by Philip Cheng, the Orange County Performance Audit Director - Final Report on March 24, 2015 said that the County Shelter did not identify, or weigh the animals before euthanizing them and did not verify death post euthansia.  It's very important to weight animals before euthanizing them so you can know how much of the euthanization solution to give them and is important to check to make sure they're dead. So that a horror to think about and maybe they could explain that for us?  Re. the 2 Advisory Committees, (to the County Shelter) the ACCOC (Animal Care Community Outreach) and the FOAB (Financial Operational Advisory Board) that Don White (LH Assistant City Manager) has been a part of for at least 7 years both consist of APPOINTED Members so I'm wondering why there is no volunteer group of people not appointed by districts or the County that may be more interested in Quality of Care and it appears that is badly needed.  (The ACCOC (Animal Care Community Outreach) consists of 5 members who are APPOINTED by the 5 County Supervisorial Districts and the  FOAB (Financial Operational Advisory Board) consists of 7 members (6 members APPOINTED but the Orange county City Manager's Association and 1 member from the County.)
Also the Performance Audit done by the County noted that the County Shelter was 44% below industry standards related to staffing. The Performance Report made it clear that so many of the County's problems were symptomatic of a lack of funding. So if you want to consider only the cheapest service available, we are seeing a really good example of that here with this shelter. There were 108 pages in this County Audit of the Shelter related to how bad off this shelter is and basically most of them were related to lack of funding. Also, Related to the cost for the new county shelter there were a lot of different buy in costs given for Laguna Hills over the past months from $249,000 to $185,000 so I don't really know what the cost is going to be for Laguna Hills to buy into a new County Shelter.  Also the Staff Report references an "indemnification clause" from the Mission Viejo Animal Shelter's contract with it's cities.  We've been guessing about that one since 2005 related to whether Mission Viejo's contract for  indemnification was the same at the County Shelter's, and it sure looked that way to us. So since we've been thinking about that for 10 years, why not ask Greg (Laguna Hills City Attorney)?  We all trust Greg no matter what side we're on so why not ask him?

Mayor Kogerman - We'll defer that until we get to that item on the agenda re. the Mission Viejo Animal Shelter.

Rose Tingle -  The Financial Operational Advisory Board (FOAB) meets monthly at the county shelter and has been doing that for as long as I can remember.  This committee does not take minutes and the public is not allowed to attend their meetings so I'm asking you tonight to please make a motion to allow the public to attend these meetings, so the public doesn't have to wait years for an Orange County Grand Jury Report to come out to learn about all the problems at the County Shelter.  Also, I believe it was Council Member Carruth who mentioned the mandatory spay and neuter. The Performance Audit Report done by the County recommended mandator spay and neuter for the cats and the Orange County Board of Supervisors said no. Question re. something Steve Franks said last year that the county was going to issue an RFP or FOAB or ? to possibly create adoption centers in North and South County, but did not hear any reference to that in their presentation tonight.

Mayor Kogerman - Laguna Woods   Can't pass a motion tonight on your suggestion (because the suggestion was not agendized) but we do hear what you have to say.
Rose Tingle - what do I have to do to make that happen?
Kogerman - the motion you asked for was regarding the FOAB. We can make that recommendation to Don White (Assist. City Manager) and find a way to act on that.

April Josephson - Rancho Santa Margarita and has a pet adoption center located in Laguna Hills. April said she is the 5th District Representative to the Orange County Outreach Committee and became active with the others that have just spoken more than 10 years ago with trying to form a Regional Shelter that we hoped to have had at that time.  Then I found out that this position existed and I applied and Supervisor Bates appointed me and I am now Supervisor Bartlett's appointee to animal care and I currently chair the committee. So we have a meeting on the 27th and while we do provide input from the community, I provide a lot of input from the rescue community as well so I am a public representative but I am appointed by the Board of Supervisors so I just want to put clarify that.

ANIMAL CARE SERVICES UPDATE - EVALUATION OF INITIAL  RESPONSE FROM THE CITY OF MISSION VIEJO

Don White, Assistant City Manager of Laguna Hills said last staff report was on Oct. 27 and it was becoming clear that time that the County of Orange had accelerated their schedule to build a new shelter. (after 74 years and multiple scathing reports by OC Grand Juries plus 2 additional Grand Jury reports in 2015 and the County Auditor's report in 2015 that all noted many long term significant problems with the current county animal shelter.)  We heard directly from the County tonight and I can tell you that a new shelter is a real thing not a myth.  It's going to happen soon. The reason for that report on Oct. 27 was to give you the opportunity to look at alternatives.  There was some doubt related to the County being serious about the shelter, we've put that to bed. In Oct. you directed us to make an initial inquiry with the City of Mission Viejo, which we did.  We're very appreciative of the staff at Mission Viejo who provided a thorough response.  A copy of our letter to them from LH City Manager Channing is in the Staff Report as is the thorough response from Mission Viejo to the 9 questions we asked.  The info. we needed to provide an preliminary evaluation the cost and issues involved if we went with the Mission Viejo Animal Shelter as opposed to staying with the county.  There's no question that Mission Viejo is a Very Fine Animal Service Provider and they have a long history of doing that. In their proposal to us they are saying that absorbing another city into their system is an opportunity for them to add a midnight shift, which they currently do not have.  They operate with 5 Field ACOs (Animal Control Officers) now so they would add 2 additional ACOs which included expanding some of the facilities at the shelter.  So we looked at what the cost would be if Mission Viejo were to contract with both Laguna Hills and Rancho Santa Margarita at the same time starting July 1, and in doing that perhaps could achieve economies of scale that would reduce the cost to us and to Rancho Santa Margarita (RSM).  Tonight we want you to defer any decision until staff has the opportunity to see if we could achieve this economy of scale with Mission Viejo. We have had discussions with RSM as well.  We've been told that Mission Viejo is working on this now.

Don White, Assist. City Manager continued - In looking at Mission Viejo's proposal, we did an analysis from their numbers so far and we know there is some confusion related to our shelter expense if we stay with the county.  Our Buy In Amount with the County Shelter is $185,000.  We've used larger numbers in the past, to be conservative, but this is the number that the County has now published and distributed to all of the contract cities based on a $30 million shelter with the County kicking in $5 million and $25 million being divided among the 18 currently contracted cities based on a 5 year average of animal charge days.

***Don White is telling us here that the final number for Laguna Hills' BUY IN AMOUNT for the County Shelter is $185,000 but in the past we have been quoted many different "BUY IN" numbers by the County ranging from $249,000 to $415,000 and tonight, this is what Steve Franks, the Director of Orange County Community Resources under which the Animal Shelter services fall had to say about the confusion re. these numbers:  Steve Franks said We are currently working on terms and conditions for agreements and distribution of contract city maximum financial obligations and participation agreements with the new shelter with the city negotiating sub-committee (which includes Laguna Hills Assistant City Manager, Don White)  Intention is to have a final agreement with the cities in January to share with city councils of contract cities and those cities that have expressed interest in contracting with us moving forward at a new shelter. The target date for a commitment is April, 2016 of this year to allow for final design work related to the size of the shelter needed for the number of cities that will be contracting. **Related to this information that the number of cities that are going to continue with the county animal shelter have not yet been confirmed, therefore the amount of money that the City of Laguna Hills will have to pay to the county for a new shelter, including the buy in amount, has also not yet been confirmed.

Don White continued that overall in projecting out over the next 5 years the contract with Mission Viejo under a proposal that includes only Laguna Hills joining the Mission Viejo Animal Shelter, without Rancho Santa Margarita also joining is predicted to be $630,000 or ($120,000 per year) over the next 5 years.
**Don White's projection for that amount may be significantly less if Rancho Santa Margarita joins the Mission Viejo Animal Shelter at the the same time Laguna Hills joins and/or if the annual amount for services from the new County Shelter is increased due to the significant amounts of increased staffing required by the County Shelter (see above) as well as other increases needed to maintain the new shelter properly to prevent the chronic underfunding problems that have resulted in the severe lack of maintenance that has plagued the current county shelter for so many years.

Don White continued - There were 3 other areas of concern that are not insurmountable  One is revenue generation related to the Mission Viejo Shelter charging substantially less for licensing of dogs that the County Shelter does. If Mission Viejo decided to raise their fees for licensing and their city council agreed and their partner cities agreed this might be possible. Another concern is that Mission Viejo does not canvas neighborhoods to check for up to date dog licensing, so this could result in a drop in license compliance overtime. (Please see above related to questioning of Dr. Hawkins, DVM, County Shelter Director related to the amount of canvassing done by the county.  When Laguna Hills used the amount of canvassing contractually provided by the county it was too little to make a difference so Laguna Hills had to pay significantly more for canvassing that actually produced an increase in the license compliance rates. It is also not mentioned here that the Mission Viejo Shelter believes that providing lower rates for licensing fees and more as well as better services for residents encourages residents to license their pets.  They stay with that system because they say it has worked very well for them for many years.) 
Don White continues re. indemnification. He said the County indemnification is blanket but Mission Viejo's is limited related to one 5 word phrase "anything related to animal control" that is missing from Mission Viejo's contract.  He Added that it's possible that this could subject Laguna Hills to some problems with law suite but admitted that neither of Mission Viejo's partner cities, Laguna Niguel or Aliso Viejo have ever had problems related to this.   
** 10 years ago we examined the contract language between Mission Viejo and their partner cities and found the language related to indemnification to be exactly the same as the language in Laguna Hills Contract with the County. However, at that time, Laguna Hills told us that regarding indemnification that there were "unknown risks" for Laguna Hillls with Mission Viejo but never could explain what those risks were.  Now, after 10 years Laguna Hills was able to give us the 5 words they say are missing from the Mission Viejo contract related to indemnity which are "anything related to animal control" so I asked the Laguna Hills City Attorney for his input during this meeting and it appears that these words may make some difference but the Laguna Hills City Attorney added that he'd have to research this to be sure.

Don White continued that the other issue is equestrian related to Mission Viejo Animal Shelter not being able to house large animals. He added he has talked with the County and doesn't see this as an insurmountable issue. ** Approximately 2 years ago, we spoke with a city representative from Laguna Beach Animal Shelter about this problem and were told they maintain a contract with the County related to housing large animals, including horses, as needed, from their community and they have found this to work well for them. We suggested that Laguna Hills contact Laguna Beach for more information.

Mayor Pro-Tem Don Sedgewick - Asked if Mission Viejo's facilities were large enough to accommodate one and maybe two more cities with significant expense to building a larger facility etc.

Don White answered - He thinks they do have the shelter capacity. He added that Laguna Hills has low utilization related to shelter days. Mission Viejo looked at a 3 year record of Laguna Hills shelter days at the County shelter and responded that they do have the capacity needed for our animals. Don added that Rancho Santa Margarita uses fewer shelter days at the County Shelter than Laguna Hills uses.

** We just visited the Mission Viejo Animal Shelter a week ago and they had only 4 dogs. We have noted over recent years that Mission Viejo Shelter often takes dogs from bad shelters and taked care of them, as needed, through the donations raised by their DAWG group and finds good homes to adopt them through the Mission Viejo Shelter.

Mayor Kogerman - Asked if the Orange County Animal Shelter that's being proposed is actually smaller than the Mission Viejo Animal Shelter.
Don White responded that the county Shelter will be significantly larger.

Council Mamber Carruth asked Would Mission Viejo entertain the possibility of a split billing so that Laguna Hills residents could be charged $27 rather than $20 for a dog license, which is the same that they pay now to the County.  she also asked if Mission Viejo would allow it's partner cities to have a greater part in decision making about shelter expenses such as capital improvement projects.

Don White - Answered No to a split billing because he believes it would be a billing nightmare for them. He also answered No to more input into shelter management from partner cities because Mission Viejo has done such a great job in managing and maintain their shelter and see it at belonging to them. He added that he doesn't blame them and thinks they have done a responsible job in managing their costs over the years. He added we would have a one time buy in fee now but would not expect expensive surprises in the future.

**Neither do we blame them after what we have learned over so many years about how the input from partner cities as well as the County Supervisors has so negatively effected the County shelter.

PUBLIC COMMENTS -

Jean Bland - Re. the indemnification issue, can we ask Greg (Laguna HIlls City Attorney) about that, because we all trust Greg no matter what side we're on re. any issue.

Mayor Kogerman asked the City Attorney, Greg Simonian if he could respond to this.

City Attorney Greg Simonian answered the issue has not been referred to my office for a legal review, having said that however, I have reviewed the staff report and in preparation for tonight's meeting and I did read the discussion in the staff report regarding this issue and based on the information contained in the staff report I can safely say that the two indemnification provisions are not the same, they are written differently, and it would appear that Mission Viejo provides somewhat more limited indemnity language, whereas the County appears to be providing more broad indemnification favorable to cities. To confirm this I'd have to do additional research but that's my initial review.

Jean Bland - Then my next question would be to ask Mission Viejo if they might add that key indemnification phrase.

Don White said they asked Mission Viejo and they had provided a response that they are happy with their indemnification language.
Mayor Kogerman asked if he other two cities, Aliso Viejo and Laguna Niguel who contract with Mission Viejo have had any problems with Mission Viejo's indemnification language.

Don White answered they signed off on it.

Jean Bland - The last time we were looking for animal shelters a couple of years ago Laguna Beach told us that they have a separate contract with the county shelter for large animals only so that's not been a problem for them. I notice that the people from the Animal Shelter are gone but I wanted to know what experience has the consultant that the OC Shelter hired had and what experience has Dr. Hawkins had in turning significantly problematic animal shelters like the county shelter around?  That question has not yet been answered by anyone, as far as I know.  Dr. Hawkins said tonight that she'd been at the County shelter on and off for 8 years but I think it's important to know
if you are hiring someone to do her job in a shelter like that that they have significant experience turning around a shelter that's in such bad shape.

Mayor Kogerman asked if there is any information on that issue.

Don White responded that the consultant that the county is planning on bringing on board next month probably would be considered the foremost person in the State of CA. to do such a thing.  We can make that experience public once it's approved.

Mike Bland  thanked the counsel and staff members.  He said he remembered years ago when Mission Viejo did their presentation, the existing council with the exception of Ms. Carruth, were extremely nasty to Mission Viejo. It's fantastic that the attitude has changed now.  The other thing is that it's not just about money.  We know what Mission Viejo does. they do an excellent job!  We've been with them for 20 plus years and have volunteered over there. We've adopted more dogs than probably we should have but they do an excellent job.  There are some concerns that Mr. White has brought up and they need to be examined but re. the County, how many times have we had Grand Jury Reports now about them plus the Audit. It's terrible!  To me, even if the build a new facility I'm not sure about who's going to run that or if it will ever be any better whereas Mission Viejo is top of the line. It will cost us more and it would be great if we could keep the higher license fees because that would help offset some of the cost but $630,000 over 5 years is a lot of money but if you stay with the county things don't get better we're gonna come back and remind you that you should have gone with Mission Viejo.

April Josephson said she is here now as the founder of the non-profit pet rescue adoption center of Orange County and she added that she is an attorney specializing in animal law.  She thanked the City for granting her conditional use permit for and said she will be having regular hours for pet adoption shortly but she wants to address some policy issues that she hopes the city will consider when you look at Mission Viejo.  Mission has a better facility and it's closer and we'd all would love to be at Mission Viejo but their animal control and animal ordinances are theirs and  when you contract with OC Animal Care you're able to make your own laws. You negotiated with the County and you pay for more days than any other city pays for with the County. ** Those days to which April is referring are only 3 days beyond the mandatory hold time.  They are only for dogs with identified owners, they are available on a space available basis only, and if an owner finds his or her dog and takes it home the fees that owner pays to the shelter include reimbursement to the City of Laguna Hills for those additional 3 days. 
You can have your own barking dog ordinance and those things and the county will enforce it, but with Mission Viejo, in reading their response to question # 3, it appears that all governance is Mission Viejo's and their laws and you will have to abide by their laws and their ordinances which are different from yours. Not only is there the local control issue that we all care about but I've heard across the board from rescue groups and volunteers from the former adoption shop that was in the mall, several pet supply stores Vets and others that Mission Viejo's ordinances are too strict and not rescue friendly. And that may interfere with the business of the Pet Adoption Center in the future and with any other pet related businesses in town. From what I know already it could prevent operations completely.
We checked with MissionViejo about these regulations and learned that they are related to the need to prevent the spread of disease from shelter animals to other animals related to 
** The County Audit's finding at the County Animal Shelter that in 2014, 1,605 dogs and cats were normal when they come to the shelter and later euthanized because of medical conditions or contagious disease. So a couple of specifics that I would like to address are that they want all animals that are at events to have a health certificate within 12 hours of an event. For rescue groups and fostering that's impossible and costly to go to a Vet every time you have an event. I don't know what that means in the context of our adoption center so I'm very concerned with that and I have volunteers at my center who were with the Adoption Shop and their issues were than Mission Viejo didn't consider their animals healthy although a Vet considered them healthy so they couldn't bring them from the shelter to the adoption shop. So those are the types of issues I'm concerned with and I think it's imperitive that you see that all governance is with Mission viejo and you have no leeway so do a thorough review of all their ordinances or try to negotiate to provide your own ordinances. She added she is an RSM Resident and gave this information to our City Manager so when you're speaking with RSM's City Attorney, you may have some of this information accessed already.

Fran Tardif, Laguna Hills - We've been hearing a lot about indemnification and facilities and cost but the point I was trying to make the most and Mr. Sedgewick was kindof broaching that with Dr. Hawkins and that was what more can you do besides the physical things you're doing now and that's adoption programs and spay and neuter programs can make more us of volunteers because they do lower costs and improve the plight of the animals in the shelters.  But it seems that the County isn't aware of Mission Viejo and perhaps Irvine and how valuable those programs can be. So in your dealings with Mission Viejo where I it's clean and beautiful and I know they do a great job, I would rather have my animal there than at the County obviously but is Mission Viejo more willing to introduce some of these ancillary programs than the County would be in the future. I didn't hold out a lot of hope for the County from what they were telling us.

Mayor Kogerman said she understands that Mission Viejo has a lot of volunteer services and they also have their DAWG group for which the cost for neuter and spay are very low through VETs who volunteer their time.   Low cost availability from spay and neuter takes care of a lot of the concerns from Mr. Carruth.

Don White said he thinks spay and neuter is not a big issue for us in So. OC.
Mayor Pro-Tem Don Sedgewick said he got the feeling tonight that the county has a hard time dealing with volunteerism due to their union contracts that seem to be really restrictive in allowing volunteers do things.  It sounds like they have their hands tied a little bit. They may have other reasons as well that they found volunteers to be less effective than they thought they might be?  Mission Viejo may not have those restrictions.
Don White - Acknowledged that it is less restrictive in Mission Viejo but the County does have volunteers.  Mission Viejo doesn't have their hands ties in the same way that the county does.  More opportunity and convenience for volunteers at Mission Viejo.
Vote - Was to receive and File. 

No comments: